Jump to content

Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Australian Wikipedians' notice board

Portal | Project | Board | Alerts | Deletions | To-Do | Category | Related | Help


    WikiProjects edit | watch
    In the news edit | watch
    Read and edit Wikinews


    2 December 2024 – Maritime drug smuggling into Australia
    Australian Federal Police announces they have arrested thirteen men, including the vice president of the outlaw Comanchero Motorcycle Club and two teenagers, for illegally smuggling 2.34 tonnes of cocaine into the country after their fishing boat broke down off the coast of Urangan, Queensland, Australia. (Al Jazeera) (RNZ) (ABC News)
    29 November 2024 – 2024–25 Australian region cyclone season
    The death toll from the floods and landslides in North Sumatra, Indonesia, increases to 31, with ten others injured, and dozens of others missing. (DW)
    28 November 2024 – 2024–25 Australian region cyclone season
    Landslides and flash floods caused by Cyclone Robyn kill at least 27 people and injure dozens of others in North Sumatra, Indonesia. (Reuters)
    28 November 2024 –
    The Australian House of Representatives passes a bill to restrict social media access for people under the age of 16 years. (NBC News)
    25 November 2024 – 2024–25 Australian region cyclone season
    Sixteen people are killed and six others are missing in flash floods caused by Tropical Low 01U in Sumatra, Indonesia. (AP) (The Irish Examiner)
    25 November 2024 – Censorship in Australia
    Australian Parliament vetoes a bill that would authorize the Australian Communications and Media Authority to implement detailed surveillance on digital platforms and enforce anti-misinformation punitive measures on them, which opposition politicians condemn as "censorship laws" and a betrayal to democracy. (AP)


    Categories edit | watch
    On this day in Australia edit | watch

    Australia · Arts · Architecture · Cities · Communications · Culture · Economy · Education · Environment · Geography · Government · Healthcare · History · Law · Language · Lists · Media · Military · Music · Organisations · People · Politics · Religion · Science · Society · Sport · Subdivisions · Transport · Tourism

    Australian states and territories · Australian Capital Territory · New South Wales · Northern Territory · Queensland · South Australia · Tasmania · Victoria · Western Australia

    Capital cities · Adelaide · Brisbane · Canberra · Darwin · Hobart · Melbourne · Perth · Sydney

    Australia stubs · AFL stubs · Geography stubs · Government stubs · Law stubs · People stubs · Paralympic medalists stubs · Television stubs

    6 December:

    Transit of Venus
    Transit of Venus


    To-Do edit | watch
    Announcements edit | watch

    Here are some tasks you can do to help with WikiProject Australia:


    Requests · Ariadne Australia · Awakenings Festival · Drought Force · Electoral reform in Australia · Fossils of Australia · Landforms of Australia · Sculpture of Australia

    Articles needing attention · Australian contemporary dance · Crime in Australia · Environment of Australia · Gender inequality in Australia · Privacy in Australian law · Secession in Australia · Tourism in Australia

    Images requested · Cheryl Kernot · MV Pacific Adventurer · Poppy King · Rosemary Goldie · James Moore · OneAustralia · Australian major cricket venues

    Verification needed · Architecture of Australia · Australian performance poetry · FreeTV Australia · Hindmarsh Island Royal Commission · List of political controversies in Australia · Punk rock in Australia


    Quality watch:

    Indigenous Australian artists vs Australian Aboriginal artists

    [edit]

    Is there a difference between this categories? Category:Indigenous Australian artists and Category:Australian Aboriginal artists. LibStar (talk) 23:48, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Indigenous is a broader term, including Torres Straight Islanders and other people born in Australia. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 23:56, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks LibStar (talk) 00:16, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    So all people currently in Category:Indigenous Australian artists, except Alick Tipoti and Ken Thaiday Snr, ought to be in Category:Australian Aboriginal artists? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 00:32, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, I think the other way around. LibStar (talk) 01:18, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    According to WP:CATSPECIFIC, subjects ought to placed into the most specific category. If Category:Indigenous Australian artists is the broader category and Category:Australian Aboriginal artists the more specific, my suggestion is valid. Whether a Category:Torres Strait Islander artists is needed, IMO it is, is a different matter. I can't see why a person should be in both. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Presumably if they have both ancestries and are part of both communities? 5225C (talk • contributions) 05:21, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Should Category:Indigenous Australian artists also have a subcat Category:Torres Strait Islander artists?
    2. If so, how should artists of both Aboriginal and TSI descent be categorised? Dual catted?
    3. Who would be considered Australian "indigenous" but not Aboriginal and/or TSI? (Are there any artists who should appear at the top level Category:Indigenous Australian artists?)
    4. Ellen José is currently listed under Category:Australian Aboriginal artists, but I can't see that she fits that cat -- she is of TSI and overseas descent. There may be other TSI artists similarly (mis?)categorised.
    ~Hydronium~Hydroxide~(Talk)~ 02:17, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Good points. Agree with point 1. LibStar (talk) 02:19, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I would suggest: (1) Yes. (2) Yes, dual-categorised. (3) Likely only artists who have not specified which group they belong to. 5225C (talk • contributions) 05:28, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    I am having difficulty finding sources on this person. Having a common name doesn't help, the sole source provided is dead. LibStar (talk) 05:31, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Have you tried Trove? I can see https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/110920364?searchTerm=%22David%20Williams%22%20legislative https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/250282927?searchTerm=%22David%20Williams%22%20legislative https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/110920048?searchTerm=%22David%20Williams%22%20legislative. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 12:08, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Comments requested at Talk:Yanchep line

    [edit]

    Comments at Talk:Yanchep line#Proposed merge of Northern Suburbs Transit System into Yanchep line from members of this WikiProject are requested please. Steelkamp (talk) 06:07, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Good article reassessment for Hoodoo Gurus

    [edit]

    Hoodoo Gurus has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 02:16, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Two Wikipedians in search of a standard

    [edit]

    Australian articles are a mess as to the abbreviation and capitalization of "Junior" in postnoms.

    I had been blithely using jr Jr. Jnr and all sorts of variations until it was brought to my attention that, in Australian usage, a full stop (period) is not attached to an abbreviation where the last letter is retained. My Macquarie encyclopaedic dictionary confirmed Jr for "Junior", quite prescriptively.

    My Fowler's English Usage gives similar advice. Under "period (full stop) in abbreviations" it has Abbreviations are chiefly made in two ways: one by giving the beginning of the word in one or more letters and then stopping, the other by dropping out some portion of the middle. Those of the first kind are rightly ended with a period, but the common practice of doing the same to the second is ill advised. It then goes on to recommend Mr for Mister, Capt. for Captain, Cpl for Corporal, Geo. for George and Thos for Thomas, Lat. for Latin and Gk for Greek and ht wt for hit wicket. Curiously, I find no mention of "Junior" in that little article, nor sandwiched between "junction" and "junta". Ditto "Senior".

    The Wikipedia article American and British English spelling differences#Acronyms and abbreviations says Contractions where the final letter is present are often written in British English without full stops/periods (Mr, Mrs, Dr, St, [sic] Ave). Abbreviations where the final letter is not present generally do take full stops/periods (such as vol., etc., i.e., ed.); British English shares this convention with the French: Mlle, Mme, Dr, Ste, but M. for Monsieur. In American and Canadian English, abbreviations like St., Ave., Mr., Mrs., Ms., Dr., and Jr., usually require full stops/periods. Should we be actively enforcing this convention in articles labelled {{Use Australian English}}? Doug butler (talk) 21:34, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    We have:
    • MOS:JR, which includes the full stop and makes no mention of US/UK differences
    • WP:JR/SR, which does distinguish between the two styles (full stop or not), per WP:TITLEVAR, MOS:ENGVAR.
    If nothing else, MOS:JR should mention that the US/UK difference. Mitch Ames (talk) 00:36, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    MOS:JR should mention that the US/UK differenceDone. Mitch Ames (talk) 00:55, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Exactly. Media often just uses their own style guide, which may or not match the general population. For example, The West Australian and The Age both use December 1, 2024 as their date format. I can find usage of senior, junior, snr, jnr and jr (almost all without the period) when searching for Gary Ablett on TheAge.com.au. The-Pope (talk) 13:32, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I think there are a couple of separate issues. The first is the style. The second is when should you use junior/senior at all.
      On style, the Macquarie Dictionary says in its entry for "junior and "senior" (I presume the italicisation isn't a recommendation, just an inconsistency in the formatting of the two entries).
      Sr, Sen.
      Jr or Jun.
      So if we are going to make an argument using MOS:TIES, then I suggest that these are the acceptable forms. While not official, Macquarie Dictionary is our de facto Australian standard for spelling etc. There is also the Australian Style Guide published by the Australian Government which is supposedly followed in government publications; I checked my copy (admittedly a couple of decades old now) and it says nothing about this topic. But maybe if someone has access to a recent edition, it might be worth checking if it has any guidelines as, like the Macquarie Dictionary, it would be an important consideration. I note that if the two were conflicting, I would follow the Macquarie for informal writing and the Style Guide for formal writing (not sure which we do with Wikipedia, a bit of both I suspect).
      But, my understanding is that in Australia we do not use "junior" and "senior" as a permanent fixture to people's names as they appear to do in the USA, but only when we need to disambiguate because both are being discussed and that their use is relative to who is being discussed. That is, it is a disambiguation in context, not a permanent part of their name. So, e.g. the Katter family have three generations of politicians, all of whom are officially named Robert Katter (with differing middle names), but their Wikipedia articles are Bob Katter Sr., Bob Katter and Robbie Katter. Now the use of "Bob" and "Robbie" come from our common name policy (as that is how they are generally known, as it seems even for the Katters having too many Bobs was a problem). But I don't see why one has "Sr." as a permanent part of the article title. It's not his name. If we want to disambiguate article titles, we can use Bob Katter (1918-1990) for the grandfather or whatever. The use of "Sr." wasn't his common name (so we aren't following the common name policy) but being forced to follow some American practice by the MOS. And if we were discussing the grandfather and father together, the grandfather would be senior and the father be junior, but if we were discussing the father and the son, then the father would be senior and the son junior. And indeed if we were discussing all three, then the sensible thomg (in ordinary English) would not be talking about Robert Katter III, but saying Bob Katter (grandson) to make clear which one we meant. As far as I am aware, junior and senior are not allowed in birth certificates, passports, and official documents here in Australia, as we do not recognise them as part of the name. Kerry (talk) 09:08, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      The Americans add a full stop always whereas we do not add one to an abbreviation if would normally end in that letter. MOS:JR also adopted the American form of omitting the parenthetical comma. Since the use of "junior" and "senior" in names is primarily an America thing (although less common now than it was in the first half of the 20th century), we filed it under WP:ENGVAR. MOS:JR applies to articles in American English only. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 09:40, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    It is with a sad heart that I inform the Australian contributors of the sudden passing of JarrahTree. Please reflecting on what JarrahTree has done over the last 19 years, 6 months, 1 week and 1 day at his user talk page. Gnangarra 08:03, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    I feel sad that he and I never had that catchup that he was seeking....
    Dan arndt (talk) 08:11, 3 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]